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“Does torture work?” as a question needs to be put in the bin with “Is slavery commercially feasible?” & “Can genocide help overpopulation?” 7:01 AM – 10 Dec 2014

Previously:

A Small Clique Of Legal Extremists… (February 24, 2008)

We have already determined what we are… (December 9, 2014)

“…to otherwise commit moral and national suicide by euphemism.” (December 10, 2014)

The world remains the same (December 11, 2014)

Our time (December 12, 2014)

No, Americans aren’t ‘fine with torture.’ They strongly reject it.

By Paul Gronke, Darius Rejali and Peter Miller December 11

[….]

What it’s called matters – a fact not lost on the Bush Administration, which coined new phrases to call practices “not-torture.” It redefined the meaning of legal words and concepts, and described specific interrogation techniques as vaguely as possible….

[….]

EITs it is, then.

A picket sign from around 2002.

As if anything has changed in the last decade.

Previously:

A Small Clique Of Legal Extremists… (February 24, 2008)

We have already determined what we are… (December 9, 2014)

“…to otherwise commit moral and national suicide by euphemism.” (December 10, 2014)

The world remains the same (December 11, 2014)

A picket sign from 2002.

Nothing much has changed, eh?

Cheney blasts Senate interrogation report

David Jackson, USA TODAY 9:19 p.m. EST December 10, 2014

Former Vice President Dick Cheney ripped a new Senate report on harsh interrogation techniques Wednesday as a “terrible piece of work” that throws CIA officials “under the bus” for political reasons.

“The report is full of crap, excuse me,” Cheney said during an interview on Fox News….

….Cheney, the highest-ranking official from the George W. Bush administration to comment publicly since the Senate released its report on Tuesday, also said Bush was “fully informed” about the interrogation program….

[….]

Principles of International Law Recognized in the Charter of the Nüremberg Tribunal and in the Judgment of the Tribunal, 1950.

[….]

Principle III

The fact that a person who committed an act which constitutes a crime under international law acted as Head of State or responsible Government official does not relieve him from responsibility under international law.

[….]

[emphasis added]

Excuse him? Never. And that’s what really chafes his ass.

“…the lesson that this long course in human wickedness had taught us-the lesson of the fearsome, word-and-thought-defying banality of evil…” – Hannah Arendt, Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil

Nothing has changed.

Previously:

A Small Clique Of Legal Extremists… (February 24, 2008)

We have already determined what we are… (December 9, 2014)

“…to otherwise commit moral and national suicide by euphemism.” (December 10, 2014)

At the White House petition site:

We petition the Obama Administration to:

Prosecute, to the full extent of the law, all of the parties responsible for the use of torture outlined in CIA report

Torture is a war crime. There is no statute of limitations on war crimes. Those that have committed this crime should be tried and punished to set us right with the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. We need justice before there can be redemption. The time is now to set our moral compass in the proper direction by holding those responsible for the horrific acts done in our countries name. There needs to be accountability – there needs to be justice – there needs to be a trial for war crimes now that we know just what was done in our name.

Published Date: Dec 09, 2014

Issues: Criminal Justice and Law Enforcement

Signatures needed by January 08, 2015 to reach goal of 100,000 99,404

Total signatures on this petition 596

[emphasis added]

A few good people.

We petition the Obama Administration to:

Arrest Dick Cheney and George W. Bush for crimes against Humanity

We The People demand the immediate arrest of war criminals Dick Cheney and George Bush for committing crimes against humanity. These 2 men are an affront to American morality and values. They have been deemed war criminals across the globe yet remain free at home. America is supposed to be a nation of freedom, truth and justice. However the CIA torture report demonstrates that these 2 leaders place no value on human life and as a result we call for their arrest, a fair trial, and justice to be meted out accordingly (a luxury their victims were not permitted to receive)

Published Date: Dec 09, 2014

Issues: Foreign Policy, Government Reform, Homeland Security and Disaster Relief

Signatures needed by January 08, 2015 to reach goal of 100,000 99,800

Total signatures on this petition 200

[emphasis added]

It’s possible their travel agents will have interesting challenges routing their international travel in the future.

That was Charles P. Pierce yesterday.

Dead tree media on newsstands this morning:

This morning’s headlines from (left to right) the Kansas City Star (“Brutal Tactics Detailed”),

The New York Times (“Senate Panel Faults C.I.A. Over Brutality And Deceit In Terrorism Interrogations”),

and USA Today (“An Ugly Truth: CIA torture was broad, ineffective, report says”).

Interestingly, only USA Today has the stomach to use the “T” word. And that’s under the main headline.

Previously:

A Small Clique Of Legal Extremists… (February 24, 2008)

We have already determined what we are… (December 9, 2014)

…now we just need to haggle over the price.

Charles P. Pierce, part the first:

….I no longer take seriously anyone, in or out of government, who talks about “the debate” over whether the United States tortured people. The only debate left is the debate over whether or not it will remain the policy of this nation to torture people, or to outsource the job of torturing people, or to otherwise commit moral and national suicide by euphemism.

Anyone who still believes there’s a “debate” over whether or not the United States, using techniques previously used by the Japanese Imperial Army, the Gestapo, the North Korean People’s Army, and the KGB, tortured people is an idiot and a coward and I have no time for them. Not any more. Debate’s over. We became what they think we are. And worse. This is not debatable and, alas, it is anything but a surprise.

Charles P. Pierce, part the second:

….This is what the Senate report really means. We lost more than our phony “innocence” in what we allowed to happen in the country in the years following the attacks on September 11, 2001. We lost more than the scales from our eyes. We gave away our right to judge, anyone, anywhere, for the crimes that we committed out of rage and fear and deception. We betrayed the principles enunciated at Nuremberg. We sold out Robert Jackson for John Yoo.

In 1948:

In the judgment of the tribunal, International Military Tribunal for the Far East – Proceedings, p. 48,442.

Changi Prison, October 1943

… The Japanese were trying to establish that there was a spy organization in Changi Prison which received and transmitted by radio telephony, which had established contacts in the town for the purpose of sabotage and [12937] stirring up of  anti-Japanese feeling, and which collected money from outside for this purpose. In fact, there was no organization, no radio transmission and no attempt to promote anti-Japanese activities outside the Camp…[12939]

…Usually interrogations started quietly and would continue as long as the inquisitors got the expected answers. If, for any reason, such answers were not forthcoming, physical violence was immediately…

…[12940] employed. The methods used were:

(1) Water Torture. There were two forms of water torture. In the first, the victim was tied or held down on his back and a cloth placed over his nose and mouth. Water was then poured on the cloth…

International Military Tribunal for the Far East – Proceedings, p. 12,936.

In 2007, a letter to the editor:

Kansas City Star

Wednesday, November 21, 2007

Letters

Limited use of torture

…Instead of prohibiting torture, we should regulate how and when it can be used. It should only be used on people we are sure have important information and should be restricted to methods that don’t inflict permanent damage…

We have already determined what we are, now we just need to haggle over the price.

Previously:

A Small Clique Of Legal Extremists… (February 24, 2008)

Previously: A Small Clique Of Legal Extremists… (February 24, 2008)

Charles P. Pierce, today:

[….]

“I’m for Mitt Romney,” Bush told ABC News this morning as the doors of an elevator closed on him, after he gave a speech on human rights a block from his old home – the White House.

A speech on human rights.

Jesus wept.

[emphasis in original]

Be glad then, America.

At last night’s republican presidential debate:

November 13, 2011 9:35 AM

Republicans return to the torture ‘debate’

By Steve Benen

….Co-moderator Major Garrett read an email from a veteran of the Vietnam War who believes “torture if always wrong in all cases,” and asked if the candidates agree. The question was first directed to Herman Cain, who said he’d do whatever military leaders said they wanted to do. Garrett pressed further, specifically noting the argument over waterboarding. Cain replied:

“I agree that it was an enhanced interrogation technique…. Yes, I would return to that policy. I don’t see it as torture. I see it as an enhanced interrogation technique.”

This generated applause from the South Carolina audience….

[emphasis added]

From Show Me Progress, A Small Clique Of Legal Extremists… (February 24, 2008):

….Meanwhile, the Army thought that it needed to emphasize that “waterboarding” people is not a good idea:

U.S. Department of Defense

Office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense (Public Affairs)

Presenter: Pentagon Press Secretary Geoff Morrell November 14, 2007

…Q  The alert that went out reminding military personnel about the military ban on waterboarding — was that in response to any specific event or specific comments by military personnel that made you think you needed it? I mean, most notably, General Honore’s comments about waterboarding from last week — was this a response to those comments?

MR. MORRELL: Yeah, I think that went through — I think that was an Army mandate, if I’m not mistaken. But I do not know what precipitated them or prompted them to choose to remind their personnel of the fact that waterboarding is a practice that is forbidden under the Army Field Manual. But I think it is — I wouldn’t read anything into it, but I think it’s always worthwhile to remind our men and women in uniform — and all those who work for us, for that matter — what the rules are and what they aren’t. And the rules forbid such practices throughout the U.S. military…

[emphasis added]

The 1992 Army Field Manual on Intelligence Interrogation [pdf] provides for “two tests”:

If you think that someone who you act upon believes it’s a violation of their rights, or if you believe that the act, when applied to an American prisoner, would violate their rights, then don’t cross that line….

And the South Carolina republican debate audience applauded torture.

“…the rules forbid such practices throughout the U.S. military…”

Previously: His sock puppet used a crayon, he used blood and oil (August 30, 2011)

Getting Away With Torture

Dick Cheney’s memoir shows the importance of the law, not of torture.

By Dahlia Lithwick

Posted Tuesday, Aug. 30, 2011, at 5:23 PM ET

….Dick Cheney is living proof that if we are not brave enough to enforce our laws, we will forever be at the mercy of a handful of men.

We are not worthy.