…now we just need to haggle over the price.

Charles P. Pierce, part the first:

….I no longer take seriously anyone, in or out of government, who talks about “the debate” over whether the United States tortured people. The only debate left is the debate over whether or not it will remain the policy of this nation to torture people, or to outsource the job of torturing people, or to otherwise commit moral and national suicide by euphemism.

Anyone who still believes there’s a “debate” over whether or not the United States, using techniques previously used by the Japanese Imperial Army, the Gestapo, the North Korean People’s Army, and the KGB, tortured people is an idiot and a coward and I have no time for them. Not any more. Debate’s over. We became what they think we are. And worse. This is not debatable and, alas, it is anything but a surprise.

Charles P. Pierce, part the second:

….This is what the Senate report really means. We lost more than our phony “innocence” in what we allowed to happen in the country in the years following the attacks on September 11, 2001. We lost more than the scales from our eyes. We gave away our right to judge, anyone, anywhere, for the crimes that we committed out of rage and fear and deception. We betrayed the principles enunciated at Nuremberg. We sold out Robert Jackson for John Yoo.

In 1948:

In the judgment of the tribunal, International Military Tribunal for the Far East – Proceedings, p. 48,442.

Changi Prison, October 1943

… The Japanese were trying to establish that there was a spy organization in Changi Prison which received and transmitted by radio telephony, which had established contacts in the town for the purpose of sabotage and [12937] stirring up of  anti-Japanese feeling, and which collected money from outside for this purpose. In fact, there was no organization, no radio transmission and no attempt to promote anti-Japanese activities outside the Camp…[12939]

…Usually interrogations started quietly and would continue as long as the inquisitors got the expected answers. If, for any reason, such answers were not forthcoming, physical violence was immediately…

…[12940] employed. The methods used were:

(1) Water Torture. There were two forms of water torture. In the first, the victim was tied or held down on his back and a cloth placed over his nose and mouth. Water was then poured on the cloth…

International Military Tribunal for the Far East – Proceedings, p. 12,936.

In 2007, a letter to the editor:

Kansas City Star

Wednesday, November 21, 2007


Limited use of torture

…Instead of prohibiting torture, we should regulate how and when it can be used. It should only be used on people we are sure have important information and should be restricted to methods that don’t inflict permanent damage…

We have already determined what we are, now we just need to haggle over the price.


A Small Clique Of Legal Extremists… (February 24, 2008)