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On Friday, June 19th, Representative Denny Hoskins (r – noun, verb, CPA) held town halls in Holden, Warrensburg, and Knob Noster. The events, in the middle of the day, were sparsely attended.

The liveliest exchanges were in Warrensburg and came from one individual who pressed representative Hoskins on two issues. We’ve previously covered the first exchange, on regressive taxes in: Representative Denny Hoskins (r) – Town Halls: was for the “fair” tax before he was against it

The second question, concerning conceal carry on university campuses, came at the end of the Warrensburg town hall, with the exchanges including a third person in the audience who had been using a small video camera to tape the town hall.

This statement by representative Hoskins early in the exchange “…And I, I received a lot of positive feedback from people who were for that as well, um, through e-mails…” was striking because we don’t have any way of confirming the content or quantity of those e-mails on the subject, since Representative Hoskins has asserted through the Clerk of the House that a request for that specific information [addressed to] from Representative Hoskins cannot be honored because the Missouri Sunshine Law does not apply:

Denny Hoskins (r): not a big fan of governmental transparency

“…1. All written and electronic correspondence with administrators, faculty, and students at the University of Central Missouri concerning legislation pertaining to the issue of concealed and carry of firearms in Missouri….”

The transcript of the conceal carry discussion at the Warrensburg town hall:

Representative Denny Hoskins:…Other questions? Yes.

Question: Can you give me your philosophy as a representative I, and I ask this question within the context of the concealed carry bill?

Representative Hoskins: Yes.

Question: Because on our conversation, we had a private conversation over the phone about this, you told, you did not vote initially for the amendment when it came up, you, you were doing something else.

Representative Hoskins: All right.

Question: The, the [garbled]. And you were going to investigate it and you were going to talk to those people who were directly involved in the conceal and carry. [crosstalk]

Representative Hoskins: Right.

Question: And I know you received then, communication from the Faculty Senate which voted overwhelmingly against [garbled] conceal carry permit holders. The Students, who voted overwhelmingly against conceal and carry. I know you had communications with the head of Public Security, um, the university that said he was against it and moreover, his statewide organization had a resolution in February against it.

Representative Hoskins: Right…

Question: The Board of Trustees voted against it. Given all of this information from your constituents you still voted for it. Can you explain your philosophy as our representative, explaining that?

Representative Hoskins: [garbled] And I, I received a lot of positive feedback from people who were for that as well, um, through e-mails and, and conversations that I had with…[crosstalk]

Question: As I pointed out, the Student Government Association, the Board of Trustees, the faculty, and the administration in overwhelming numbers voted against it. That’s all. Or, urged you to, to vote against it.

Representative Hoskins: Right, right. What it, what it came down to, and I did a lot of research on this. Um…. there has not been one incident, not only in Missouri, but the United States, with a conceal and carry permit holder committing a crime. And…[crosstalk]

Question: What?

Representative Hoskins: With their concealed firearm.

Question: What? Not a single one?

Representative Hoskins: I know, I know, it’s, it’s …[crosstalk]

Question: No, that’s not true, of course. That’s not true, of course.  [crosstalk] But, thank you.

Representative Hoskins: We’ll disagree to,  we’ll disagree to disagree. Uh, you know, there are other colleges and universities that allowed it, including Virginia’s community colleges, um, I believe Utah, Colorado, Colorado State has not had one incident. There’s not been one incident on, by any college or university on col…, on campus where a conceal and carry permit holder has committed a crime with a concealed firearm, committed suicide, had their firearm stolen, uh, there, there’s just none.

When Missouri first originally passed their conceal and carry law, you know, opponents to it said, “Oh, there’s gonna be shoot outs in the streets. It’s gonna be quick draw style.” That’s simply not happened. Ever. Not only in Missouri, but in the United States. And, I could not find one, uh, you know, I support the Second Amendment, and I could not find one incident that that ever happened. And based on that and multitude of other things, including the Appalachian Law School, where they had a, a armed assailant come in, uh, to actually, I don’t know if they were reserve police officers or off duty police officers, went out and, uh, got their firearms out of their vehicles. And, you know, currently at the university…[crosstalk]

Question: Can I ask a question about that? [crosstalk]

Representative Hoskins: …conceal carry…[crosstalk]

Question: ‘Cause that’s really interesting.

Representative Hoskins: Um, hm.

Question: They were reserve police officers. Is their right to have a gun, the training they go through, the same as what the training or the licensing for conceal and carry permit holders in the State of Missouri?

Representative Hoskins: Well, my understanding is that [garbled][inaudible].[crosstalk]

Question: Right, right, right. But, but, but, did their ability to have conceal and carry, their right to have one, as police officers, the equivalent of how you get a conceal and per…, per…, conceal and carry permit in the State of Missouri? Or was it perhaps just that test? Their test was slightly higher than what it takes to be a conceal and carry permit holder [crosstalk] in Missouri.

Representative Hoskins: I, I know that in, in the State of Missouri there’s lots of things you have [garbled]. You can name the requirements for conceal and carry?

Question: You bet. And it has, right. And, and, you know what the accurate, you know what the training is and what you have to demonstrate, proficiency you have to demonstrate?

Representative Hoskins: I’ve heard the…[crosstalk]

Third person in audience: Twenty out of twenty-five. [crosstalk]

Representative Hoskins: I know that you…[crosstalk]

Third person in audience: Twenty out of twenty-five.

Question: Twenty out of twenty-five. How far away?

Third person in audience: Seven yards.

Question: Seven yards. So if you hit twenty out of twenty-five at seven yards you [garbled] have a conceal carry permit. And, and how often are you retrained? [fourth voice in background, inaudible]

Third person in audience: You don’t have to retrain.

Question: Oh, so once you do it…[crosstalk]

Third person in audience: you’re responsible…[crosstalk]

Question: …that’s it. In, is that how…[crosstalk]

Third person in audience: You’re responsible for bringing yourself…[crosstalk]

Representative Hoskins: You have to take a background check. [crosstalk]

Question: What? [crosstalk] No, no, no.[crosstalk] [in react
ion to the interruption]

Third person in audience:Yes, yes you’re fingerprinted at the sheriff’s office. You have to do, pass a background check…[crosstalk]

Question: Right.

Third person in audience: …both federal and state. As well as, if you have an unpaid parking ticket, you cannot get your conceal carry license. So, it’s not like you’re getting, if, if someone’s going to commit a crime…they’re not going to be concerned with whether or not they’re supposed to have that gun. If I was gonna go kill a teacher, God forbid, I wouldn’t care, care if that, the least of my concerns would be whether or not I was supposed to have that gun in the first place. That would be the least of my concerns.

Question: So, no, no, no. I want to get this right though.  But, once you pass it, you’re never retested.

Third person in audience: Right.

Question: Police officers, once they become a police officer, they’re never tested on a gun again?

Representative Hoskins: Once I get my hunter safety permit I don’t have to get my hunter…[crosstalk]

Question: No, no, no, we’re talking about, you’re talking about the Appalachian State case. I mean, I talked to Bob Ahring [Director of Public Safety, University of Central Missouri], they are tested quarterly…[crosstalk]

Representative Hoskins: Right.

Question:…on guns.

Representative Hoskins: Right.

Question: Okay, if you want to allow…[crosstalk]

Representative Hoskins: Would you be okay…[crosstalk]

Question:…If you want to allow people to have guns where I work to make me safe, then have them meet the requirements of a regular police officer, if the Appalachian State is your example of why conceal and carry will make me safe.

Representative Hoskins: I think education…[crosstalk]

Question: Why don’t you do that? [crosstalk]

Representative Hoskins: …is an important part of it.

Question: Why, why don’t you introduce that bill?

Representative Hoskins: That’s a, that’s an interesting concept. I’ll look into that. So, you’d be for having conceal and carry…[crosstalk] on campus if they had to take additional training…

Question: Yeah, if a conceal and carry permit holder equals what a police officer has to go through. You bet.

Representative Hoskins: All right.

Question: And they regularly are retested quarterly the way the people charge of keeping me safe do now. Will you do that?

Third person in audience: You think the likelihood that police officer will be in a shootout  versus the likelihood that a normal citizen would be in a shootout may have something to do with the training requirements?

Question: Um, by the way, did you follow what happened at Holocaust, the Holocaust Museum?

Third person in audience: Yes.

Question: Who, who got Roeder? [von Brunn has been charged with the Holocaust Museum murder, Roeder has been charged with the Tiller murder in Wichita]

Third person in audience: The what?

Question: Who, who got Roeder?

Third person in audience: I can’t understand what you’re saying.

Question: Who got the guy who went in…[crosstalk]?

Third person in audience: The security guards did. [crosstalk]

Question: Thank you.

Representative Hoskins: You know, there,  there’s other examples that, you know, we had an unfortunate incident in Kirkwood City Hall. And, you know, the guy went in there, the assailant, the murderer, and he knew that there was two police officers in that building. One outside and one inside. So what did he do? He went, and he knew that conceal and carry was not allowed in the city council, uh, meeting, so, he went and killed the police officer in the parking lot. He went inside and killed the police officer inside. And then he had free rein inside the, uh, city council and killed two city council members, unfortunately. So, you know, there’s, there’s examples both ways.

Question:  So, are you going to allow people in the gallery in the House have con… guns? ‘Cause they can’t now. I’ve looked at the legislation, sir. They cannot now.

Representative Hoskins: I, I wouldn’t be against that.

Question: Why don’t you introduce that as your legislation then? So that your colleagues could, people in the gallery can have guns in case somebody enters.

Representative Hoskins:  Well, and, and they currently, uh, they can have them out in the hallways. It’s just that they can’t have them in any, uh, I think…[crosstalk]

Question: Well you’re worried about the Kirkwood case, though?

Representative Hoskins: Right.

Question: Don’t you think you ought to have armed citizens sitting above you as you debate, uh, legislation on the floor of  [crosstalk] the General Assembly?

Representative Hoskins: If they’re, uh, properly trained and law abiding [crosstalk] citizens.

Question: Then intro…, why don’t you introduce that, too? The next time you want to make me safe, why don’t you make yourself safe and introduce the same thing? End the, the restriction in the House for conceal and carry?

Representative Hoskins: …but…[crosstalk]

Question: If Kirkwood is, is your, if…[crosstalk]

Representative Hoskins:  I, I didn’t introduce the legislation, so…[crosstalk]

Question: Yeah, but you’re my representative.

Representative Hoskins: I know.

Question: You voted to, to have guns where I work. You understand why I’m concerned about this?

Third person in audience: Are you concerned when you go to Wal-mart? Because people go to Wal-mart. Are you concerned when you walk down the street? Because people walk down the street with guns all the time. [crosstalk]

Question: Sir, I drove a taxicab in the City of Chicago for five years.

Third person in audience: Profess…[crosstalk]

Question: You bet. And no gun was gonna keep me safe. And when I finally had one pointed at the back of my head, had I pulled one out, he’d of got me before I got him…[crosstalk]

Third person in audience: [garbled]…they don’t have that in Illinois…[crosstalk]

Question: What? He’d of killed me before.

Third person in audience: Illinois doesn’t have a conceal carry permit.

Representative Hoskins: Sir, where, where do you think that, uh, guns should be allowed?

Question: Ooh, I, lord knows, having hit a deer, we gotta have, we gotta kill deer in this state. Oh, I love hunters. Please kill deer. Please kill the deer. But I don’t, you think I need a gun in here in this library right now? You think I, I, I feel unsafe? Do you feel unsafe? Because nobody has a gun?

Representative Hoskins: [inaudible] All right. Thank you….

Some of our previous coverage on conceal carry and Denny Hoskins (r – noun, verb, CPA):

Denny Hoskins (r): “Mr. University President, tear down those signs…”

Denny, Denny, Denny…brush up on the first rule of holes

Denny, Denny, Denny…brush up on the first rule of holes, part 2

Missouri House news

Some more information on HB668 and Campus Conceal-Carry