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Tag Archives: concealed carry

HB 593: even more republican gun humping in the General Assembly

13 Friday Jan 2017

Posted by Michael Bersin in Missouri General Assembly, Missouri House

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Andrew McDaniel, concealed carry, guns, HB 593

A bill introduced yesterday:

HB 593  
Modifies provisions relating to the concealed carrying of firearms
Sponsor: McDaniel, Andrew (150)
Proposed Effective Date: 8/28/2017
LR Number: 1291H.01I
Last Action: 01/12/2017 – Introduced and Read First Time (H)
Bill String: HB 593
Next Hearing: Hearing not scheduled
Calendar: HOUSE BILLS FOR SECOND READING
[….]

The bill would remove a number of restrictions. The bill:

FIRST REGULAR SESSION
HOUSE BILL NO. 593 [pdf]
99TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY

INTRODUCED BY REPRESENTATIVE MCDANIEL.
1291H.01I D. ADAM CRUMBLISS, Chief Clerk

AN ACT

To repeal sections 571.030, 571.107, 571.215, 577.703, and 577.712, RSMo, and to enact in lieu thereof five new sections relating to firearms, with penalty provisions.
Be it enacted by the General Assembly of the state of Missouri, as follows:
[….]
2. A person shall not carry a weapon readily capable of lethal use onto any private property whose owner has posted the premises as being off-limits to such weapons by means of one or more signs displayed in a conspicuous place of a minimum size of eleven inches by fourteen inches with the writing thereon in letters of not less than one inch. A violation of this subsection shall not be a criminal act but may subject the person to denial
of admission to the premises or removal from the premises. If such person refuses to leave the premises and a peace officer is summoned, such person may be issued a citation for an amount not to exceed one hundred dollars for the first offense. If a second citation for a similar violation occurs within a six-month period, such person shall be fined an amount not to exceed two hundred dollars and, if he or she has a permit to carry concealed firearms, then such permit shall be suspended for a period of one year. If such person does not have a permit to carry concealed firearms then a permit shall not be issued for a period of one year from the date of the violation. If a third citation for a similar violation is issued within one year of the first citation, such person shall be fined an amount not to exceed five hundred dollars and shall have any Missouri lifetime or extended concealed carry permit revoked. Such person shall not be eligible for a new or renewed Missouri lifetime or extended concealed carry permit or a concealed carry permit issued under sections 571.101 29 to 571.121 for a period of three years. Upon conviction of charges arising from a citation issued under this subsection, the court shall notify the sheriff of the county which issued the Missouri lifetime or extended concealed carry permit. The sheriff shall, if necessary, suspend or revoke the Missouri lifetime or extended concealed carry permit.

[….]

[emphasis in original]

Gee, you’d have to post your own home.

The prohibitions on concealed carry in churches, schools, and higher education, among other places, are removed in the bill.

Previously:

HB 96: gun humpers in the General Assembly want to hold everyone else hostage (December 8, 2016)

Rep. Stacey Newman (D): about those guns… (December 12, 2016)

HB 300: gun humpers in the General Assembly want to hold everyone else hostage – redux (December 29, 2016)

Another dispatch from the gun culture

15 Thursday Dec 2016

Posted by willykay in Uncategorized

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concealed carry, guns, HB 96, Home Depot, Nick Schroer, regulations

Rep.-elect Nick Schroer (R-107) has filed a bill, HB 96, that would allow “law abiding” gun owners to sue businesses that ban guns. It “would apply when a person who is authorized to carry a firearm, is prohibited from doing so by a business and is then injured by another person or an animal.”

Recently an employee at a Sunset Hills Home Depot was accidentally shot by a gun carrying customer. The store has a hybrid approach to guns:

… our policy is that we do allow customers to carry firearms into our stores as long as it is in accordance with local law. We do not allow associates (employees) to carry firearms.

Since turn and turn about is fair play, under the logic of Schroer’s HB 96, shouldn’t that injured employee be able to sue the Missouri legislature that made it legal for any Tom, Butterfingered Dick and Idiot Harry to carry a gun without a permit, evidence of training or basic common sense?

Shouldn’t he also be able to sue his employer – the one who permitted said Butterfingered Dick or Idiot Harry to bring a lethal weapon into the employee’s place of work?

Would a special law even be necessary to enable such lawsuits? Isn’t criminal negligence grounds enough?

Of course, if Home Depot were to drop that pesky ban on employees carrying guns, the employee in question might have been able to blast our butterfingered gun-owner to Kingdom Come before anyone knew what going on, thus taking care of the whole issue of who litigates whom, when.

Previously:

HB 96: gun humpers in the General Assembly want to hold everyone else hostage (December 8, 2016)

Concealed carry, SB656 and the Constitution

10 Friday Jun 2016

Posted by willykay in Uncategorized

≈ 2 Comments

Tags

2nd amendment, concealed carry, missouri, SB 656

Here’s something I hope Governor Nixon takes into consideration before he signs SB 656  which  would allow Missourians to carry concealed guns without a permit everywhere open carry is legal:

A federal appeals court decided Thursday that people do not have a constitutional right to carry concealed weapons in public.

Overturning a three-judge panel’s decision, a larger group of judges from the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals said California counties may require people who want permits for concealed guns to show a specific reason why they need the weapons.

“The 2nd Amendment does not preserve or protect a right of a member of the general public to carry concealed firearms in public,” the court ruled, 7-4.

There’s lots more that will be said on this topic in potential court cases I am sure, but I, for one, am overjoyed by this reminder of the constitutional limitations of “constitutional carry,” which is what the 2nd Amendment brigade calls the situation that would be created by the provisions of SB 656. Even the gun-loving Supreme Court Justice Scalia, darling of the NRA, was clear in his opinion defining gun ownership as a constitutional right that “regulation of gun ownership was compatible with the Second Amendment.”

SB 656 loosens up lots of other restraints on guns that are just plain scary:

… .The bill will put more guns in more places and at the same time dismantle permit and training requirements for people who want to carry hidden, loaded guns in public. It also includes a so-called “stand your ground” provision — a provision that upends traditional self-defense law and emboldens individuals to settle conflicts by reaching for their firearms, even when they can clearly and safely walk away from any danger.

The appeals court decision underlines the fact that the Governor doesn’t have to expose us to this craziness. He doesn’t have to sanction turning Missouri into an armed war zone unless he really wants to. We’ll see if he gets the message.

More to the point, though, does the Democratic candidate for governor, Chris Koster, get the message? Or will he join the covey of GOP gubernatorial primary candidates for whom guns are an essential campaign tool – along with the promise of unrestricted access which those ads imply?

Guns here, guns there, in Missouri everywhere a gun

13 Saturday Sep 2014

Posted by Michael Bersin in Uncategorized

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concealed carry, firearm policy, gun control, guns in schools, missouri, open carry, SB656

From an AP news article:

A Utah elementary school teacher who was carrying a concealed firearm at school was struck by fragments from a bullet and a porcelain toilet when her gun accidentally fired in a faculty bathroom on Thursday, officials said.

The sixth-grade teacher had a concealed-firearm permit and was within her legal rights to carry a gun while in a school in Utah, which, as the same article points out, is one of the few states to permit concealed carry in schools.

Wanna know what kind of fools think it’s a good thing to arm teachers? You don’t need to worry  about Utah. Just look no further than our own home state where legislators think that the only way to forestall a potential St. Valentine’s day massacre in our schools is to enable a repeat of the gunfight at the OK Corral instead. Missouri has been among the states permitting teachers the “privilege” of concealed carry for some time, but, as of this week, the state went further to institutionalize guns in public schools when the legislature overrode Governor Nixon’s veto of SB656 which encourages public schools to train and arm designated personnel. Just let me point out in passing that the teacher in Utah had undergone firearm training which is mandatory for concealed carry in Utah, and which has been given free of cost to many teachers there.

I’m sure many will dismiss the Utah occurrence with the bromide that accidents happen, adding that it’s worth the risk in order to enable an armed “good” guy to counter those “bad” guys when they show up. Even if one accepts this highly questionable formula (which, incidentally, seems to be the entire rationale for casually carrying guns), the idea of guns in schools raises several questions that go beyond the issues involved in adequately training teachers – itself a veritable minefield: Will teachers also go through mandatory mental health screening? Can the authorities guarantee that no teachers with anger management issues will be armed in schools? Do schools mandate that guns are locked up while teachers are in class – rendering the good guy response moot – or are they left accessible to children in purses, lockers, desk drawers, or, better yet, on the desk tops where they are to-hand when that bad guy appears? Doesn’t it stand to reason that when you fill schools with guns, there will be gun related accidents? After all, accidents happen. And it’s an obvious fact that accidents with guns have a high probability of inflicting harm.

But let’s get back to that good guys with guns with guns vs. bad guys with guns argument. There are certainly true stores about armed good guys thwarting bad guys with guns – just as there are also anecdotes about situations where armed good guys are either ineffective or make the problem  worse. So lets look at what happens when folks try to analyse the issue  systematically:

One of the largest and most recent studies on gun violence in America concludes that widespread gun ownership is the driving force behind violence. The study compiles data from all fifty states between 1981 and 2010 to examine the relationship between gun ownership and homicide. After accounting for national trends in violent crime as well as eighteen control variables, the study concludes, “For each percentage point increase in gun ownership the firearm homicide rate increased by 0.9%.” This research is consistent with evidence showing that even in “gun utopias” such as Israel and Switzerland, more guns means more violence.  

Another large study compared 91 case workplaces with 205 control workplaces and found that workers whose job sites allow guns are about five times more likely to be killed on the job than are those whose workplaces prohibit all firearms.

Given the weight of evidence demonstrating the danger of carrying guns in public settings, it is extremely unlikely that more guns would make schools safer.

And in case statistics don’t convince you that arming random citizens to fight madmen and criminals is a bad idea:

A 20/20 segment, “If I Only Had a Gun,” showed just how hopeless the average person is in reacting effectively to high-stress situations. In the segment, students with varying levels of firearm experience were given hands-on police training exceeding the level required by half the states in order to obtain a concealed carry permit. Each of these students was subsequently exposed to a manufactured but realistic scenario in which, unbeknownst to them, a man entered their classroom and begin [sic] firing fake bullets at the lecturer and students.

In each one of the cases, the reaction by the good guy with a gun was abysmal. The first participant, who had significant firing experience, couldn’t even get the gun out of his holster. The second participant exposed her body to the assailant and was shot in the head. The third, paralyzed with fear, couldn’t draw his weapon and was shot by the assailant almost immediately. The final participant, who had hundreds of hours of experience with firearms, was unable to draw his weapon and was shot at point blank range.

Of course SB656 goes a lot further than just encouraging schools to arm personnel:

It also allows anyone with a concealed weapons permit to carry guns openly, even in cities or towns with bans against the open carrying of firearms. The age to obtain a concealed weapons permit also will drop from 21 to 19.

Looks like we’ve got two choices: welcome to the wild, wild West, or sayonara Missouri. Personally, I’m considering the latter. There’s something less than compelling about remaining in a state about which a commentator can write that “if there were a competition to see which Republican-led state legislature can govern in the least responsible way possible, Missouri would have to be considered a credible contender.”

 

Missouri's the fifth most violent state in the U.S.

25 Wednesday Apr 2012

Posted by Michael Bersin in Uncategorized

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concealed carry, gun control, Institute for Economics and Peace, missouri, Peace index

The Institute for Economics and Peace’s second annual United States Peace Index ranks Missouri number 45 in terms of its five measures of violence: number of homicides, number of violent crimes, incarceration rate, number of police, and the availability of small arms.

So what’s going on in Missouri that would account for this dismal status?  USA Today notes that:

The survey, once again, notes a strong correlation between peace and economic opportunity, health, education and social capital.

As I remember, Missouri ranks low in most of those correlates – but it does have low corporate taxes and a legislature determined to lower them even more while gutting education, social services and worker protections. Do you think that the Index just might indicate that kissing up to “job creators” at all costs isn’t really the way to go.

Actually, violence costs all of us – not just the victims – and in dollar and cents terms as well:

According to the Index, if all the states in the U.S. had the same level of peacefulness as the most peaceful state of Maine, $274 billion worth of extra economic activity could be generated. This additional economic activity would be enough to generate over 1.7 million jobs.

But don’t worry – our leaders in Jefferson City are on the case. They’ve given us concealed carry – in spite of our wishes to the contrary – and, last year, lowered the age at which one can pack heat from 23 to 21.  Now they’re working on getting us St. Louisians to carry our guns on the Metro. Nothing like a state full of armed vigilantes to forestall violence.

Afterthought:  In case you’re wondering, out of 61 metro areas in the rankings, Kansas City ranks 46 and St. Louis ranks 37. In Missouri the big population areas aren’t the whole story – outstate areas must be doing their part as well.

Denny Hoskins (r): "Mr. University President, tear down those signs…"

11 Saturday Apr 2009

Posted by Michael Bersin in Uncategorized

≈ 2 Comments

Tags

concealed carry, Denny Hoskins, General Assembly, guns, higher education, missouri

Our previous coverage of the Missouri General Assembly’s assault on higher education and the woeful adventures of Denny Hoskins (r – noun, verb, CPA) as he continues to stumble about blindly in Jefferson City to the detriment of his constituents:

Denny, Denny, Denny…brush up on the first rule of holes

Denny, Denny, Denny…brush up on the first rule of holes, part 2

Missouri House news

Some more information on HB668 and Campus Conceal-Carry

Yesterday’s Warrensburg Daily Star Journal did a very good job of covering Hoskins’ inability to find the voting button when conceal-carry came up for a vote on the House floor.

4/10/2009 10:01:00 AM

Guns on campus bill advances

Jack Miles

Editor

Part 1 of 2

Warrensburg – Toting hidden pistols on the University of Central Missouri campus could become law under legislation that won first-round House approval Wednesday.

Rep. Denny Hoskins missed the vote…

Go. Read the whole thing.

There was also a blistering lead editorial in the same edition of the paper.

Go. Read the whole thing.

At first Denny Hoskins claimed he wasn’t aware of the issue and that it wouldn’t come up. Then he claimed that he hadn’t decided on his position on this issue. Then he said he needed to consult with the university community (They said, “Are you @!$#%& crazy?”). Then he said he missed the vote because he was reading constituent e-mails (Why, oh why, do republicans always seem to have eighteen minute gaps? Here’s some history.). Then, in the money quote, he said he would have voted for it:

“…I’ve talked to Public Safety at UCM, I’ve talked to university officials and I’ve talked to a member of the Faculty Senate, but most importantly I’ve talked with many of my constituents and I support the amendment…”

Thickness of this magnitude thankfully only comes along rarely in each generation. Unfortunately we seem to have a statistically improbable concentration in the current Missouri General Assembly. Uh, those folks at the university are among that grouping of your constituents you putz.

Other university presidents consider this a really really bad idea:

Concealed weapons on campus bad idea, Missouri university leaders say

UM president Gary Forsee opposes weapons on campus:

…Forsee says guns put school ‘in harm’s way.’

By Terry Ganey

Friday, April 10, 2009

…University of Missouri System President Gary Forsee said having guns on campus “increases the risk that our university family could be put in harm’s way.”

“Concealed weapons also would expose our university law enforcement officers to increased risk of injury and force them to worry about the increased presence of handguns when responding to serious incidents on campus,” Forsee said. “Missouri’s college students should be allowed to learn and exchange ideas in an environment free from the threat of concealed guns. It is hard to imagine that such a proposal could gain support given the magnitude of gun-related tragedies experienced on college campuses across the country…”

So, Denny Hoskins (r – noun, verb, CPA) as a freshman legislator refuses to take a public stand, makes a show of talking to the constituents in his district, miraculously misses a vote, and then asserts that he would have voted for it. A political incompetent of this scope and breadth can only be propped up by one thing. I wonder who provides it?

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